德里罗访谈.docx

德里罗访谈.docx

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德里罗访谈

Exploring'Libra'andtheAssassinationofJohnF.Kennedy

BY ANTHONYDECURTIS | November17,1988

ThetrainridefrommidtownManhattantothepicture-bookWestchesterCountysuburbwherenovelistDonDeLillolivesoffersacapsuleviewofvirtuallytheentirespectrumofAmericanlife.AfterleavingGrandCentralStation,thetraincomesupfromundergroundatNinety-sixthStreetonManhattan'sEastSide,rollsserenelythroughHarlem,thencrossestheHarlemRiverandentersthedevastatedlandscapeoftheSouthBronx.

ThejourneycontinuesthroughtheNorthBronx,theworking-classneighborhoodwhereDeLillo,whoseparentswereItalianimmigrants,grewupandattendedcollegeatFordhamUniversity.Finally,thetrainpassesintoWestchester'sleafyenvirons.

AtDeLillo'sstation,theauthorandhiswife,BarbaraBennett,arewaiting.Thesunisblazing,andtheAugustheatiscrushing.Likethetraintrip,whichlinksthequotidiansplendorandthenightmarishundersideoftheAmericandream,thebrutalweatherseemsappropriate."Thisisthelastcomfortablemomentyou'llhaveforawhile,"DeLillosayswithasmileashegetsintothecar."Thecarisair-conditioned,butthehouseisn't."

OneofthemajorvoicesinAmericanfictionfornearlytwodecades,DeLillo,whoisnowfifty-one,rarelygrantsinterviews.Helacks"thenecessaryessaryself-importance,"asheputsit."I'mjustnotapublicman,"hesays."I'dratherwritemybooksinprivateandthensendthemoutintotheworldtodiscovertheirownpubliclife."Butthepublicationofhisninthnovel, Libra –afictionalaccountoftheassassinationofJohnKennedy,toldfromtheperspectiveofLeeHarveyOswald– haspromptedhimtospeak.

"Libra iseasiertotalkaboutthanmypreviousbooks,"DeLillosays."Theobviousreasonisit'sgroundedinrealityandtherearerealpeopletodiscuss.Evensomeonewhohasn'treadthebookcanrespondatleastinalimitedwaytoanydiscussionofpeoplelikeLeeOswaldorJackRuby.Itisfirmermaterial.I'malwaysreluctanttogetintoabstractdiscussions,whichIadmitmyearliernovelstendedtoleantoward.Iwrotethem,butIdon'tnecessarilyenjoytalkingaboutthem."

Still, Libra – whichisDeLillo'sfirstbestsellerandanomineefora1988NationalBookAwardforfictionismoreofaculminationthanadeparture.DeLillo'sfirstnovel,American,whichappearedin1971,endsinDealeyPlaza,inDallas,thesiteoftheKennedyassassination,andreferencestotheslayingturnupinseveralofhisotherbooks.In1983,DeLillowroteapieceforRollingStoneabouttheimpactoftheassassinationtwentyyearslater.Titled"AmericanBlood,"thatessayeffectivelyservesasaprécisfor Libra.

Moreover,ratherthanadvancingyetanother"the-ory"oftheassassination, Libra simplycarriesforwardthethemesofviolenceandconspiracythathavecometodefineDeLillo'sfiction."Thisisaworkoftheimagination,"hewritesintheauthor'snotethatconcludesthebook."Whiledrawingfromthehistoricalrecord,I'vemadenoattempttofurnishfactualanswerstoanyquestionsraisedbytheassassination."Instead,hehopesthenovelwillprovide"awayofthinkingabouttheassassinationwithoutbeingconstrainedbyhalf-factsoroverwhelmedbypossibilities,bythetideofspeculationthatwidenswiththeyears."

In Libra,DeLillodescribesthemurderofthepresidentas"thesevensecondsthatbrokethebackoftheAmericancentury."Butthiscataclysmdiffersonlyinscalefromthekillingsthatshattercomplacent,enclosedlivesinthenovels Players （1977）, RunningDog （1978）andTheNames （1982）.Similarly,thecollege-footballplayerwhoisthemaincharacterin EndZone （1972）andtherock-starheroof GreatJonesStreet （1973）bothachieveanalienationthatrivalstheemotionalstateDeLilloseesinLeeHarveyOswald.Apocalypticeventsprofoundintheirimpactanduncertainintheirultimatemeaningshadow Ratner'sStar （1976）and WhiteNoise （1985）,justastheassassinationdoestheworldof Libra – andourworld,aquarterofacenturyafteritoccurred.

ThisinterviewtakesplaceinDeLillo'sbackyard;afterwardwe'llheadtoadineronthetownsquare– avillagecenter"likesomethingoutoftheFifties,"DeLillosaysapprovingly– foralatelunchofburgers,friesandCokes.Inhisyard,DeLillositsonalawnchairandsipsicedtea.Fortunately,theyardisshady,andtheskycloudsoverabit.Evenso,theheat,thehumidity,thelushgreenofthegroundsandtheeeriedinofcicadasgivethesceneanalmosttropicalfeel.DeLillo– wiryandintense,wearingjeansandaplaidshirtopenatthecollar,speakingwithdeliberateslownessinagrippingmonotone– seemstheimageofamodern-dayKurtz,aliteraryexploreroftheheartofdarknesscomfortablyathomeinthesuburbsofAmerica.

TheKennedyassassinationseemsperfectlyinlinewiththeconcernsofyourfiction.Doyoufeelyoucouldhaveinventeditifithadn'thappened?

Maybeitinventedme.Certainly,whenithappened,Iwasnotafullyformedwriter;Ihadonlypublishedsomeshortstoriesinsmallquarterlies.AsIwasworkingon Libra,itoccurredtomethatalotoftendenciesinmyfirsteightnovelsseemedtobecollectingaroundthedarkcenteroftheassassination.

Soit'spossibleIwouldn'thavebecomethekindofwriterIamifitweren'tfortheassassination.

Whatkindofimpactdidtheassassinationhaveonyou?

Ithadastrongimpact,asitobviouslydidforeveryone.Astheyearshaveflowedawayfromthatpoint,Ithinkwe'veallcometofeelthatwhat'sbeenmissingoverthesepasttwenty-fiveyearsisasenseofamanageablereality.MuchofthatfeelingcanbetracedtothatonemomentinDallas.Weseemmuchmoreawareofelementslikerandomnessandambiguityandchaossincethen.

Acharacterinthenoveldescribestheassassinationas"anaberrationintheheartlandofthereal."Westillhaven'treachedanyconsensusonthespecificsofthecrime:

thenumberofgunmen,thenumberofshots,thelocationoftheshots,thenumberofwoundsinthepresident'sbody--thelistgoesonandon.Beyondthisconfusionofdata,peoplehavedevelopedasensethathistoryhasbeensecretlymanipulated.Documentslostanddestroyed.Officialrecordssealedforfiftyorseventy-fiveyears.AnumberofsuggestivemurdersandsuicidesinvolvingpeoplewhowereconnectedtotheeventsofNovember22nd.Sofromtheinitialimpactofthevisceralshock,Ithinkwe'vedevelopedamuchmoredeeplyunsettledfeelingaboutourgriponreality.

Youhavebeeninterestedforalongtimeinthemedia,whichcertainlyplayedamajorroleinthenationalexperienceoftheassassination.Televisionhadjustmadeitsimpactonpoliticsinthe1960election,andthenfortheweekfollowingthemurder,itseemedthateveryonewaswatchingtelevision,seeingJackRuby'smurderofLeeHarveyOswaldandthenKennedy'sfuneral.It'sasifthepowerofthemediainourculturehadn'tbeenfullyfeltuntilthatpoint.

It'sstrangethatthepoweroftelevisionwasutilizedtoitsfullest,perhapsforthefirsttime,asitpertainedtoaviolentevent.Notonlyaviolentbut,ofcourse,anextraordinarilysignificantevent.Thishasbecomepartofourconsciousness.We'vedevelopedalmostasenseofperformanceasitappliestotelevisedevents.AndIthinksomeofthepeoplewhoareessentialtosuchevents– particularlyviolenteventsandparticularlypeoplelikeArthurBremerandJohnHinckley[thewould-beassassins,respectively,ofGeorgeWallaceandRonaldReagan]– aresimplycarryingtheirperformingselvesoutofthewingsandintothetheater.Suchyoungmenhaveasenseofthewayinwhichtheiractswillbeperceivedbytherestofus,evenastheycommittheacts.Sothereisadeeplyself-referringelementinourlivesthatwasn'ttherebefore.

Yourefertotheassassinationatvariouspointsinnovelspriorto'Libra',andofcourse,youwroteanessayabouttheassassinationforthismagazinein1983.Whatfinallymadeyoufeelthatyouhadtopursueitasthesubjectofanovel?

Ididn'tstartthinkingaboutitasamajorsubjectuntiltheearlypartofthisdecade.WhenIdidthe1983pieceinROLLINGSTONE,IbegantorealizehowenormouslywidereachingthematerialwasandhowmuchmoredeeplyIwouldhavetosearchbeforeIcouldbegintodojusticetoit.

PossiblyamotivatingelementwasthefactthatOswaldandIlivedwithinsixorsevenblocksofeachotherintheBronx.Ididn'tknowthisuntilIdidtheresearchfortheROLLINGSTONE piece.Heandhismother,Marguerite,traveledtoNewYorkin'52orearly'53,becauseheroldestsonwasstationedatEllisIslandwiththeCoastGuard.TheygotinthecaranddroveallthewaytoNewYorkandeventuallysettledintheBronx.OswaldlivedveryneartheBronxZoo.IguesshewasthirteenandIwassixteenatthetime.

Diditseemoddthatsomereviewsevaluatedyourtheoryoftheassassinationalmostasifitwerefactandnotfiction?

Inevitablysomepeoplereviewedtheassassinationitselfinsteadofapieceofworkwhichisobviouslyfiction.MyownfeelingattheverybeginningwasthatIhadtodojusticetohistoricallikelihood.Inotherwords,IchosewhatIconsiderthemostobviouspossibility:

thattheassassinationwastheworkofanti-Castroelements.Icouldperhapshavewrittenthesamebookwithacompletelydifferentassassinationscenario.IwantedtobeobviousinthiscasebecauseIdidn'twantnovelisticinventiontobecometheheartofthebook.IwantedaclearhistoricalcenteronwhichIcouldworkmyfictionalvariations.

Apartfromthepersonalreasonyoumentioned,whydidyouchoosetotellthestoryfromOswald'spointofview?

IthinkIhaveanideaofwhatit'sliketobeanoutsiderin