CNN PresentsFight Over Faith Transcript.docx
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CNNPresentsFightOverFaithTranscript
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE:
Whetheryouknowitornot,eternity'sinthebalance.
CAROLMARIN,CNNCORRESPONDENT（voice-over）:
Acrossthecountry,acrossChristianity.
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE:
Thereisasegmentouttherethatsimplyisanenemyoftheevangelicalfaith.
MARIN:
EvangelicalChristians,morethan100millionstrong.
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE:
Theystartedthewar,andit'sabouttimethatoursidefoughtback.
MARIN:
Soldiersofthecrossinafamilyfeud.DIANEKNIPPERS,PRESIDENT,ASSOCIATIONOFEVANGELICALS:
Youseelocalcongregationssplit.
MARIN:
BaseduponastrictinterpretationoftheBible.
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE:
Ifitmattersthemost,you'regoingtofightaboutitthemost.
MARIN:
Itisafightoverfaith.Andinthebalance,theultimatereward.
ROBINCARLISLE,EVANGELICALCHRISTIAN,SPARTANBURG,SOUTHCAROLINA:
Jesuswillreturn.Andintheblinkingofaneye,thesaintswillbetaken.
MARIN:
Forpeoplewhodon'tembraceJesus,whathappenstothem?
CAITLINCARLISLE,EVANGELICALCHRISTIAN,SPARTANBURG,SOUTHCAROLINA:
Theygotohell.
（ENDVIDEOTAPE）
AARONBROWN,HOST,CNNPRESENTS:
Theyareknownasevangelicals,bornagainChristians.Andtheirpower,theirinfluenceandranksareswelling.
WelcomeagaintoCNNPRESENTS.I'mAaronBrown.
Notthatlongago,theReverendJerryFalwellproclaimedthatevangelicalscontrolthefateofnotonlytheRepublicanParty,butalsoPresidentBush'sre-election.
Andwhilesuchclaimsaredebatable,thereisnodenyingthegrowingreachandinfluenceofbornagainChristiansinthecountry.Andtheyaremakingtheirpresencefeltwellbeyondthepulpit.
Butevenamongevangelicals,noteveryoneagrees.Andthat'swherethingsstarttogetabitcontentious.
It'sthe"FightOverFaith."Here'sCarolMarin.
（BEGINVIDEOTAPE）
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE:
BuriedinChristinbaptism.
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE:
（INAUDIBLE）,Christianradio.
MARIN（voice-over）:
Overtheairwavesandontheground.ForChristians,thisisatimeofreckoning.
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE:
Tobelieversaroundtheworld,reachingindividualsandfamilies.
MARIN:
InanondescriptofficebuildingindowntownWashington,asmallgroupofbelieversisdoingnothinglessthantryingtochangethereligiouslandscapeofAmerica.KNIPPERS:
ThisisadefiningtimefortheProtestantfaith.Thisisabsolutelyadefiningmoment.
MARIN:
InAmerica'sProtestantchurches,afiercebattleisunderway,promotedbyconservative,evangelicalChristiansandbolsteredbyalittleknownbutpowerfulgroupcalledtheInstituteonReligionandDemocracy.
DianeKnippersisabattle-testedevangelical.
（oncamera）:
Isitawar?
KNIPPERS:
Itis.Theseareconflictsoverthethingsthatwebelievethemostdeeply.Andfeelingsrunhighonbothsides.
MARIN（voice-over）:
EvangelicalsmakeupthelargestreligiousgroupinAmericaacrossalldenominations.Bysomeestimates,theyare100millionstrong.
KNIPPERS:
Oneofourbigconcernsthesedaysisthewholedebateovermarriageandsexuality.Andparticularlyintheso-calledmainlinedenominations,therearesubstantialgroupsthatreallywanttoabandonBiblicalteaching.
MARIN:
Mostlywhiteandlargelyconservative,evangelicalsbelievethereisoneandonlyonepathtoheaven.TheBibleistheirauthority.Salvationistheirgoal.
AhundredmilesawayinRichmond,Virginia,wherestatuesmarkthegreatCivilWar,Presbyterianshavecometheirannualmeetingtodebatetherulesthatcouldchangetheirchurch.
UNIDENTIFIEDFEMALE:
Wetalkofknowingandconvincingandwinninganddeciding,andthoseclosed-mindedconservativesandthoseGod-forsakenliberals.
Itissoeasytofillourheartswithhate.
MARIN:
Wehavecomeheretofindoutexactlywhatthefightisabout,andtomeetthemanwhomaybethemostpolarizingfigureinthePresbyterianfaith.PaulRolfJensenishisname.
PAULROLFJENSEN,LAWYERANDPRESBYTERIAN:
IamcalledtoactionwithinthePresbyterianchurchtofightbackagainstthosewhohavemadewarandwoulddestroyourchurch.
Themanagementofthechurchhasshiftedsofartotheleft,sofarawayfromtraditionalChristianity,thatit'sturningpeopleoffindroves.Welost48,000membersnetlastyear.
MARIN:
Forthepastthreeyears,PaulJensen,aself-describedevangelicalactivist,hasbeenturningwordsintoactions.Hehasfiled25chargesofheresyagainstotherPresbyterianswhodisagreewithhisstrictinterpretationoftheBible.
ThenotionofaccusingsomeoneofheresyalmostsoundslikeathrowbacktoSalemandwitchtrials.
JENSEN:
I'mnotproposingthattheybeburnedatthestake.Iamproposingthattheybeevaluatedbytheiractions.
MARIN:
SteveVanKuikenofCincinnatiwasoneofthefirsttobecharged.InFebruaryof2000,hewaspastorofMountAuburnPresbyterianChurch,aprogressivecongregationintheheartofCincinnati.
Thatyear,hepresidedovertheweddingofCherylandJenniferMcKettrick,indefianceofchurchlaw.
Inyourview,whatdidVanKuikendowrong?
JENSEN:
Heintentionallyanddeliberatelyandpubliclydefiedhisordinationvowsandourconstitutioninablatantattempttodestroythechurch.
STEPHENVANKUIKEN,FORMERMINISTER,MT.AUBURNPRESBYTERIANCHURCH,CINCINNATI,OHIO:
Wewereawarethatwewereviolatingtheconstitutiononthat,inthetraditionofMartinLutherKing,youknow,whosaid,look.Wehavemoralobligationstodisobeyunjustlaws.
MARIN:
SteveVanKuiken'sdecisionultimatelycosthimhisjob.HeleftnotonlyMountAuburn,heleftthePresbyterians.
HisSundaysarenowspentinavacantCatholicchurch.HisflockiscalledTheGathering-amixtureofstraightandgay,somewholefthisoldcongregation,somewhofoundsolaceinhisbrandofChristianity.
VANKUIKEN:
Thanks.Pleasebeseated.
FaithisnotabouttakingGodinourhands.It'saboutplacingourselvesinGod'shands.
What'shappeningisthatthePresbyterianChurchisbecomingamoreandmoreinhospitableplaceforpeoplewhodonotinterprettheBibleinaliteralway.
It'sacrusadingmentality.It'samentalitythatseestheworldinblackandwhite,goodandbad.Ifyou'renotwithus,you'reagainstus.
MARIN:
Issexualitythedefiningissuehere?
JENSEN:
Sexualityisnotthedefiningissue.Itisthemosteasilyidentifiedissue.Thedisputeisaboutwhetherthisbookmeanswhatitsays.
MARIN:
EvangelicalsbelievetheBibleisliterallytrue,orinerrant.Andwhatitsays,accordingtoconservativeevangelicalslikePaulJensen,isunwaveringwhenitcomestoissuessuchasgaymarriageorordination.
IsitMatthewwhosays,judgenotlestyebejudged?
JENSEN:
That'scorrect.
MARIN:
Butyou'rejudging.
JENSEN:
Idon'tbelieveI'mjudging,becauseIamnotcondemninganyonetosalvationordamnation.WhatIamdoingisjudgingactions,andcallingpeopletoaccountforthoseactions.
VANKUIKEN:
ProgressiveChristiansfeellikewe'rebeingpushedoutofthemainlinedenominations.Andwe'resimplyfightingforaplaceatthecommuniontable.
Wheneveryoueatofthisbreadandyoudrinkofthiscup,...
MARIN:
Isthereroominthetentforthosewhodisagree?
Canthatdisagreementliveinsidethechurch?
KNIPPERS:
Idon'tthinkitcanoverthelonghaul.
MARIN:
Soareligiousdivorceisinevitable?
KNIPPERS:
Insomeofthedenominations,Ibelieveitis.
MARIN:
WhatishappeningamongPresbyteriansisnotunique.InvirtuallyeveryProtestantdenomination,similarbattlesareunderway.
VANKUIKEN:
There'salotoffear,andthere'sabendingoverbackwardstoplacateortopleasethewatchdogs,theconservativewatchdogs.
UNIDENTIFIEDFEMALE:
I'veservedthischurchallofmylife.AndsoIwouldaskthatyoufindawaytoshapeachurchthatismorereflectiveofafaithinGod,wholovesusall.
MARIN:
In1863,Presbyterianssplitintotwobranchesovertheissueofslavery.Ittooknearly120yearsforthatdivisiontoheal.
（oncamera）:
Thingschange,though.Societieschange.Therewasatimewhenpeoplekeptslaves,whentherewassegregation.
Andwe'veseenchangeandareinterpretationofbothourcivilconstitutionsandourchurchconduct.
Isn'tthathowanalivedemocracyshoulddoit?
JENSEN:
Thechurchisnotademocracy.Thechurchisamonarchy.AndJesusChrististheking.
MARIN（voice-over）:
Next,conservativeevangelicalsandthestrengthofbelief.
C.CARLISLE:
There'snootherwaytoheavenexceptthroughJesus.
（ENDVIDEOTAPE）（COMMERCIALBREAK）
BROWN:
WenowreturntoCNNPRESENTS,"TheFightOverFaith."
（BEGINVIDEOTAPE）
MARIN（voice-over）:
So,whatexactlyisanevangelical?
Therearecertainbeliefsallconservativeevangelicalsshare.
（oncamera）:
Isthereaheaven?
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE:
Yes.
MARIN:
Isthereahell?
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE:
Yes.
MARIN:
DoesSatanexist?
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE:
Oh,yes.Ibelieve.
MARIN:
Andisthereaclearpathintoheaven?
UNIDENTIFIEDMALE:
TheonlywaytoheavenisthroughJesusChrist.
Now,howpeoplegettoheaventhroughJesusChristmayhavealotofmysterytoit.
MARIN（voice-over）:
It'sthatmysterythat'sbroughtustoSpartanburg,SouthCarolina,thekindoftownwhereeventhecarwashpostsdailyBiblepassages.
We'vecomeheretomeettheCarlislefamily.There'sCassidy,Robin,15-year-oldRick,Prissythedogand11-year-oldCaitlin.
C.CARLISLE:
We'retypical,because,Imean,whatkindofhousewelivein,thekindofcarswehaveandstufflikethat.
Butwe'renottypicalbybeingChristian,becauseChristiansaren'ttypical.They'redifferent.Theyleadalifethat'sfollowingJesus.
R.CARLISLE:
Peoplealwaystellme,oh,yourkidsaresogood.AndI'mthinking,yes,andthisisthesamekidwhojustmouthedoffatmeforsomething,youknow.So,they'regoodwhentheyhavetobe.
MARIN（oncamera）:
So,they'renormalkids.
R.CA
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